Banned

[Pickleator]

Banned from the server and got this response over on the overclockers forum

If you play under the name Pickleator then yes you are banned from the server, I banned you earlier this evening. The decision was not taken lightly and was put in place following a rake of complaints in game, in our IRC channel and via our website by a number of server regulars. To be clear, we are not saying you are a hacker or a cheater (as everyone knows this is impossible to prove or disprove with the admin tools available). However following the complaints and allegations you have been watched and specced on the server for some time and following this it was decided a ban was the best course of action. It may be that you are just a very good player and know the game inside out. Some of our own clan members have (wrongly) been accused of hacking in games which they are just very skilled at and we appreciate this may be the case here. The bottom line is that your level of play (be it natural skill or otherwise) is causing a concerning level of complaints, accusations and spoiling the gameplay for a number of regulars to the point where we would prefer it that you took your gaming to a server more in line with your skilll level. If you wish to carry this discussion on any further, please feel free to email me (in Trust) or join up at our forums as I will not be responding any further in this thread. Cheers {SAS}TB

So here I am to discuss it further.

First let me start with my obvious response of I don't cheat. Let me ask you this, why would I put 400+ hours into a game and then throw it away by cheating? Also if I was going to cheat, why would I pick a server and regularly play there (I think I've been on yours for about a month),especially one that has people from another forum I'm on ,play on, rather than just pick a random server, grief and move on?

Judging by this

"To be clear, we are not saying you are a hacker or a cheater (as everyone knows this is impossible to prove or disprove with the admin tools available). "

This

"However following the complaints and allegations you have been watched and specced on the server for some time and following this it was decided a ban was the best course of action. It may be that you are just a very good player and know the game inside out. Some of our own clan members have (wrongly) been accused of hacking in games which they are just very skilled at and we appreciate this may be the case here."

and this

" The bottom line is that your level of play (be it natural skill or otherwise) is causing a concerning level of complaints, accusations and spoiling the gameplay for a number of regulars to the point where we would prefer it that you took your gaming to a server more in line with your skilll level."

It seems it's essentially, due to lack of admin tools to verify as best you can (one way or another) whether I'm legit or not, I'm being banned due to people complaining? That doesn't seem very fair. What about all the people who enjoy playing with me? as they know I'll play for the team (give ammo, medpacks, spot, go for flags rather than just sit there playing for my self and kdr like a lot do?

As always, it's always the complainers whose voices are loudest, look at the thread on overclockers (can't post url) You can see there are people who are quite happy to play with me/don't think I hack, but of course, they don't post here as they have no problems. No one signs up to say "I enjoy playing with X" keep them around.

Also where does it end?, so you ban me for complaints. So now the next person on the server who stands out instead of me, gets the hack accusations thrown at them instead, and it will just keep going as people just have to have an excuse for why they keep dying. It can't possibly be the fact they are going against someone with 3/4 times the amount of game time, no it has to be hacks.

[Mother]

" The bottom line is that your level of play (be it natural skill or otherwise) is causing a concerning level of complaints, accusations and spoiling the gameplay for a number of regulars to the point where we would prefer it that you took your gaming to a server more in line with your skilll level."

Then theres........

I will not be responding any further.


I would have thought that answered everything tbh?

[Pickleator]

"as I will not be responding any further in this thread" ,

the thread on overclockers, not just, "not responding any further"

"If you wish to carry this discussion on any further, please feel free to email me (in Trust) or join up at our forums"

So that's what I've done.

[TB]

First off thanks for taking the time to register and bring the discussion over here.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

It seems it's essentially, due to lack of admin tools to verify as best you can (one way or another) whether I'm legit or not

Essentially, this is correct. The game does not provide PB / X-Ray etc screen shots and there is no dedicated in-game method of spectating someone (although other in game players can spec by following people around either at close quarters or from afar with the Recon class). If these were provided then we wouldn't be here as we would have either been able to prove or disprove the complaints against you and either have said yes you are a hacker and therefore banned, or proved you are just a very skilled player and backed you being on the server 100%. Unfortunately we don't have that luxury (or basic tools as should have been provided, as many see it).

If you are 100% hand on heart legit take it as a backhanded compliment

Originally Posted by Pickleator

That doesn't seem very fair. What about all the people who enjoy playing with me?

Couldn't agree more it's not fair, but what else are we to do - we are damned if we don't listen to the complaints (and I'm not just talking about the in-game chat) and were damned if we do listen and take action. As I said in my original post we have clan members who have in the past had similar allegations levelled at them, we know they are 100% legit, but you can't prove it. It's not fair, but we don't have the tools to prove or disprove a case then we make a decision. It may be right, it may be wrong, but we make a decision made on what we see and comments from those who play on the server and we made that decision.

What you (and everyone else that play on our servers) need to appreciate is that we (the Clan) pay for the servers for people to play on and enjoy. The people that Admin them, update them, promote them to get the activity to take them into the top rankings do so both thanklessly and in their own time. Having good fun, fair servers is something we pride ourselves in and have successfully been doing for a number of years over a number of games. We take the clan, its servers and their best interests first.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

As always, it's always the complainers whose voices are loudest

We don't listen to the off the cuff "cheater" remarks in game with knee jerk reactions, we carefully consider and debate any ongoing or volume of accusations against an individual or group of individuals. We don't like banning people, especially regular users, but sometimes it is necessary to preserve the balance and experience of the servers.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

look at the thread on overclockers (can't post url) You can see there are people who are quite happy to play with me/don't think I hack, but of course, they don't post here as they have no problems. No one signs up to say "I enjoy playing with X" keep them around.

I have seen the OCUK thread and it's no more or less than expected. You (as everyone will) has a number of "supporters" who will back you and fair play to them and you. As outlined above we are not saying you're a hacker or cheat but there is a large number of suspicions and accusations which we have to take seriously, we have, and taken the decision. It may well be the case that you are just a very skilled player, but if that is spoiling the experience of their server for a sufficient number of people (regulars both from within and outside of the Clan) then, as noted, we take then Clan and its servers interests first. Some will not like the decision (and many have voiced their opinion at OCUK) but similarly a large number will welcome the decision.

Whilst we are on the subject of the OCUK thread we would like to note than a number of comments (admittedly not necessarily by you) are both rude and disrespectful and a number of them downright lies.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

Also where does it end?

Unfortunately, it doesn't. The thankless task of server running (for public enjoyment), admining etc will go on and on - past BC2 and onto the next game and the next and the next.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

so you ban me for complaints. So now the next person on the server who stands out instead of me, gets the hack accusations thrown at them instead, and it will just keep going as people just have to have an excuse for why they keep dying. It can't possibly be the fact they are going against someone with 3/4 times the amount of game time, no it has to be hacks.

As per the original post and above, I think it is quite clear on why the ban is in place, it's not down to one or two whiners, but a real level of concern, due to the number of ongoing accusations and complaints from a number of sources. We have made it quite clear we are not (as cannot prove or disprove) you are hacking or cheating in any way.

Is this fair? possibly not. Is it the right thing to do, in our opinion, after careful consideration, yes we feel it is. Did we like doing it? No, we don't like banning anyone. Will there be some backlash and fallout from it? Quite possibly and we will be extremely sorry to see anyone chose to stop using the server due to this, but it is felt that this will, ultimately, result in a more balanced and enjoyable experience for the clan, the sever and its admins.

So, sorry it had to come to this, thanks for taking the time to register and put your points across in such a measured manner and hopefully the above will clarify the reasoning and rationale behind the decision.

Cheers

[Pickleator]

Shame it had to come to this, I see where you're coming from though, but I would like to just address a few things

First this

Originally Posted by TB

It may well be the case that you are just a very skilled player, but if that is spoiling the experience of their server for a sufficient number of people (regulars both from within and outside of the Clan) then, as noted, we take then Clan and its servers interests first.

If you had pbss etc, would I still be banned? As I would still be playing as I do now and spoiling it for a number of people (getting killed or losing spoils it I guess?), would I still be banned?. After all you'd have your proof, but I'd still be causing people to whine.

also I'd like to clarify on this

Originally Posted by TB

As per the original post and above, I think it is quite clear on why the ban is in place, it's not down to one or two whiners, but a real level of concern, due to the number of ongoing accusations and complaints from a number of sources. We have made it quite clear we are not (as cannot prove or disprove) you are hacking or cheating in any way.

I never meant you have banned just because of one or two whiners, but the same will happen again. Someone else will come along (or someone who is already there will stand out now) and the same amount of accusations will be thrown at them. Some one better than average will come along again and the accusations will come out again .


Also while I'm here, can you expand on the accusations? As no one ever expanded on them on the server, it was always just you cheat, no reason why. It's not like I constantly shot people through walls or anything, so at least from my view it just seems like they were simply for the fact I killed a lot, but didn't die a lot.

Most of the stuff I do can be explained (I say most as everyone gets a lucky shot now and then) so whether it makes a difference or not, I'd at least like to counter the claims (if I can, obviously I can't really explain stupid stuff like, you kill me too quick). As at the very least, maybe someone will read it, see what I've wrote and take something from it and then think about it next time they die, rather than scream hacks.

[Mother]

To be fair if you were hacking imo you would just move on to another server thinking well they have sussed me.
Seen a few hackers over the years....normally they just leave.

[TB]

Originally Posted by Pickleator

Shame it had to come to this, I see where you're coming from though, but I would like to just address a few things

First this


If you had pbss etc, would I still be banned? As I would still be playing as I do now and spoiling it for a number of people (getting killed or losing spoils it I guess?), would I still be banned?. After all you'd have your proof, but I'd still be causing people to whine.

As ive posted above:

If these were provided then we wouldn't be here as we would have either been able to prove or disprove the complaints against you and either have said yes you are a hacker and therefore banned, or proved you are just a very skilled player and backed you being on the server 100%. Unfortunately we don't have that luxury (or basic tools as should have been provided, as many see it).

So if the tools were available to prove no schennanigans were taking place, yes, you would be on the server, with our support.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

also I'd like to clarify on this

I never meant you have banned just because of one or two whiners

In all honesty I don't belive this your, and your fellow OCUKers comments insinuate this is exactly the case, without reading my post fully and concisely, and this has helped fuel the fire, shit storm, and down right lies in the posts that followed.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

but the same will happen again. Someone else will come along (or someone who is already there will stand out now) and the same amount of accusations will be thrown at them. Some one better than average will come along again and the accusations will come out again .

Unfortunately, your probably right, your not the first and probably wont be the last. But rest assured (as with yourself,) the decision won't be taken lightly and will be fully investigated before any action is taken.

Also "above average" I feel is a tad unfair. I think the general skill level on the server, generally, is above average, at least. Again your skill level appears way above this which again has not heped the accusations or suspicions. Believe me someone will really need to have a lot of complaints and / or accusations before it gets anywhere near this point, despite some of the posts to the contarary elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Pickleator

Also while I'm here, can you expand on the accusations? As no one ever expanded on them on the server, it was always just you cheat, no reason why. It's not like I constantly shot people through walls or anything, so at least from my view it just seems like they were simply for the fact I killed a lot, but didn't die a lot.

Most of the stuff I do can be explained (I say most as everyone gets a lucky shot now and then) so whether it makes a difference or not, I'd at least like to counter the claims (if I can, obviously I can't really explain stupid stuff like, you kill me too quick). As at the very least, maybe someone will read it, see what I've wrote and take something from it and then think about it next time they die, rather than scream hacks.

As you have at least been civil here I will (but I dont have time ATM) and will go thought the posts etc and post a sample up.

Thank you for the manner in which you have conducted yourself and hopefully you can see the reasons why the ban has been put in place and hopefully some of the OCUK crowd will be as understanding as you have rather than instantly reduce the whole thing to a shit slinging match as they readilly did.

Cheers

[Pickleator]

Originally Posted by TB

In all honesty I don't belive this your, and your fellow OCUKers comments insinuate this is exactly the case, without reading my post fully and concisely, and this has helped fuel the fire, shit storm, and down right lies in the posts that followed.

While you're entitled to believe that, at least after your post I didn't mean it like that. My original post which contains "Whiners moaning about dying and calling you a cheat gets you banned now? " Which of course does make it look like that, was made before you posted, and well what was I suppose to think. I don't know about complaints through the website etc all I see is people whining on the server, then kick/ban.

2nd post which has "Just sounds like enough people scream hacks and a ban is incoming . " I'll give you that one, I probably should have left that part off, but I had just been banned from a server I've played for months and at the time of posting, from my view at least, it really did seem like that.

Was good times playing on there, so don't want it to seem like I purposely attempted to start a big argument.

Originally Posted by TB

Also "above average" I feel is a tad unfair. I think the general skill level on the server, generally, is above average, at least. Again your skill level appears way above this which again has not heped the accusations or suspicions. Believe me someone will really need to have a lot of complaints and / or accusations before it gets anywhere near this point, despite some of the posts to the contarary elsewhere.

I wasn't trying to say your server is full of crap people or below average people by that comment, it's just the only way I could really think of to put it across. While kdr isn't the only stat that matters (and in some modes, it's irrelevant), I'll use it as it's normally the thing that starts the hack accusations. If you grab the stats of a random group of players, the majority seem to have between 1-2, so I would put anyone who consistently gets above 2 or so, as above the average. That's all I meant by it.

Originally Posted by TB

As you have at least been civil here I will (but I dont have time ATM) and will go thought the posts etc and post a sample up.

Thank you for the manner in which you have conducted yourself and hopefully you can see the reasons why the ban has been put in place and hopefully some of the OCUK crowd will be as understanding as you have rather than instantly reduce the whole thing to a shit slinging match as they readilly did.

Cheers

Thanks, I'll await the samples then, see what I'm actually accused of

Although why I'm here, if pbss gets added or vietnam expansion has it (assuming you lot have a server), will it be looked at again (ban lifted and ss on server at some point or similar?)

Thanks

[Andy^_^]

To put my oar in.

Pickle may be a damn bollockache of a player to play against, but I don't think he's a cheater or hacker of any kind.

I've stopped playing on the server recently because of the sheer levels or whine on there.
I kick players for things, and half the server whines, the other half pats you on the back. Its a lose-lose situation and tbh there's no end in sight.

I play on a lot of hardcore server, just for the crack mainly & get my stars up on my weaps and I can't even begin to tell you how often I get kicked & banned just due to having a good aim!

Let me know where you're playing these days Pickle lad, i'll come join for a few rounds!

-Andy^_^

[TB]

Originally Posted by Pickleator

Iif pbss gets added or vietnam expansion has it (assuming you lot have a server), will it be looked at again (ban lifted and ss on server at some point or similar?)

Thanks

Very possibly - as above if BC2 had them we wouldn't be having this conversation

Originally Posted by Andy^_^

To put my oar in.

Pickle may be a damn bollockache of a player to play against, but I don't think he's a cheater or hacker of any kind.

We haven't said that he is

Originally Posted by Andy^_^

I've stopped playing on the server recently because of the sheer levels or whine on there.

I know mate I was in Admin and IRC when you announced it

Originally Posted by Andy^_^

I kick players for things, and half the server whines, the other half pats you on the back. Its a lose-lose situation and tbh there's no end in sight.

Then hopefully you can understand our predicament - as above damned if you do and damned if you dont. And it will only get worse during the school holidays, unfortunately

Originally Posted by Andy^_^

I play on a lot of hardcore server, just for the crack mainly & get my stars up on my weaps and I can't even begin to tell you how often I get kicked & banned just due to having a good aim!

Again, unfortynately, you will see its not just us. But hopefully you will also see this particular deicion was not a knee jerk reaction but a measured and considered one